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Sgath
Forums Moderator
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Re: im thinking of becoming a republican and joining the NRA just to r
October 29, 2009, 1:53PM

The Republican party is certainly not lassez faire anymore, at least not since Bush. The government increased in size and scope to a level unprecedented in U.S. history with corporate welfare and disregard for budget deficits.

And I am not talking about the economic size of government. I'm talking about the governments ability to tell you what you can and can not do in terms of personal freedoms, not economic freedoms, though as I have discussed the Republican party no longer stands for the same economic freedoms Reagan did, partially of is own doing in spurring the culture of deregulation.

I'm talking about their social politicla stance. Which part supports your right to do what you want more? The answer is liberals, who are socially more libertarian and less authoritarian.But social conservatives want to be able to tell you what you can and can not do because they want to enforce morals on society. This is being against social freedoms.

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Sgath
Forums Moderator
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Re: im thinking of becoming a republican and joining the NRA just to r
October 31, 2009, 4:21AM

lol

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Foxblood
Starling
posts: 5306
average posts: 3.3 per day
Re: im thinking of becoming a republican and joining the NRA just to r
November 1, 2009, 1:20PM

This post is stupid.

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"Envy is the silliest of the seven deadly sins because there's no upside to it. You just end up sitting around making yourself sick. Now gluttony? That's a sin with some upside. I'm not even going to get into lust." - Warren Buffett



nodgene
Starling
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Re: im thinking of becoming a republican and joining the NRA just to r
November 1, 2009, 4:37PM

Also, the "science" is unnatural and isn't meant to be.

You're actually being serious? I thought the USA was meant to be, you know, good, and not aspiring to be the Christian version of Iran? For all the right-wing there scare at the mention of the colour red and its use outside of their own flag for it's political affiliation with the left-wing of the political spectrum... for instance, they seem awfully fond of trying to institute their own theocratic authoritarianism within their own nation. And you know what that is? Hypocrisy, and you know the one group of people Jesus hated? The hypocrites. Amazing stuff!

And it's interesting how you criticise "the science" when it comes to biological fields that could save human life, but would effectively be cutting deep into the jugular of all other "sciences" that you seem as pretentious and "unnatural". (You know what's "natural"? Fucking Ebola, that's natural. Some example of God's love that is.) But when it comes to technology that is developed based on other sciences (technological or chemical or physics based, for instance) by the industries and corporations that for some reason the Republicans get off to, then oh, science is our friend. Again, blatant contradiction and illogic.

Speaking of illogic... the whole "liberal" versus "conservative" tags seem to have become over-used to be the point of insanity. God knows why the entirety of human opinion and philosophy can be neatly allocated into two generic categories and then accurately compared and contrasted? Of course not. All such things do is make outsiders think Americans are stupid and can only handle two choices when it comes to important things like politics.... and further retard the American political process.

And while we're on issues of Christian morality, where does being extremely pro-business and anti-socialist come into the whole message Jesus created of... you know, giving everything you have to the poor and following him? Throwing the merchants out of the temple? Jesus was clearly a communist, and outside of the USA there are quite often supporters of socialism who are basically Christian-socialists. Because you know, they try to follow the bible and not just ignore the bits that would deny them their plasma screen TVs.
For all the right-wing there complain about the left making the nation weak and pathetic, they have some nerve to accuse. They do nothing but encourage systemic retardation of the political process, dumbing down of everyone's understanding of practically everything, and let's not forget being the most interesting "Christians" I've ever seen.
Pro-guns? What happened to turn the other cheek?
Pro-business? What happened about the chances of a rich man going to heaven?
Anti-science/socialism/stuff? What happened to tolerance and forgiveness?

Yeah, pretty fucking good Christians there, since they've managed to shit all over many of the basic and important tenants of Christianity.

And don't get me wrong, the democrats are just as crap as the Republicans, but they don't make quite so many hypocritical statements just so often.



Sgath
Forums Moderator
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Re: im thinking of becoming a republican and joining the NRA just to r
November 2, 2009, 1:59AM

Amen brother.

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xellence
Starling
posts: 1024
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Re: Re: im thinking of becoming a republican and joining the NRA just
November 2, 2009, 10:09AM

On October 31, 2009, 2:30AM, ImBeautiful said:

Here is a mini-list I just found online. This can help you.
I'll give you republican answers.

"So here's my list so far. Yes gets 1 point. If you have more than 6 points, you are probably a Democrat. I am open to any suggestions and improvements. That's what the comment link is for.

- A Balanced Budget vs. Lower Taxes - Is a balanced Federal budget more important to you than lower taxes?
I answer no, because I'd rather have lower taxes. The taxes that I do pay I would want to go to the military. I believe that a strong defense is very, very important, more so with all of the weapons being developed. We need to be on top.
- Tolerance vs. Morality - Is tolerance of other lifestyles more important than a moral code of conduct in our society?
I answer no, because I do not support other lifestyles. I do not support gay marriage, and I think that there is a set we every family should be. I do not like abnormal families. I think parents should be married, and children should be taught religion. I honestly think that if my son ever brought home a boyfriend that I wouldn't be able to handle it.
- Individual Security vs. A Gun Free Society - Is a country without guns more important to you than a secure home?
I REALLY answer no to this. My family has a lot of guns. They hunt, and want to protect their families. I have a gun. There is no way to wipe out all guns ANYWAYS, and all of the good people who have them for protection would abide by the law, while the criminals would have them to commit crimes- which is why liberals want guns outlawed anyways.
- Prison vs. Capital Punishment - Do you favor imprisonment for life over capital punishment?
NOPE. I think people should be killed for the things that they do. Why should we pay for them to eat and survive, only to have a possibility of being released and doing whatever they did again?
- Socialism vs. Capitalism - Do you favor a society with a big social safety net over a society where people get to keep more of what they make for themselves?
No, You earn it, it's yours. Why give away your hard earned money for a bunch of bums to collect welfare so they can live? You have needs too.
- Statesmanship vs. Unilateralism - Do you believe the US should always work in concert with other countries instead of "going it alone" when it needs to?
No, because sometimes we need to.
- Public vs. Private Education - Do you think the federal government should only fund public schools?
No, I think that they government should fund all of the schools, public more than private. Because education is important, and all schools need the funding, even the ones collecting money from the parents.
- Judicial Freedom - Do you think that judges should be free to "interpret" the laws of our country?
No. Just no.
- Scientific Advances - Do you think science should be allowed to advance unchecked by our moral code?
No I do not. I'm all about morals. Also, the "science" is unnatural and isn't meant to be. If God wanted us to live longer, he would have made us immortal. We need to die. We're over populated.
- Enviroment vs. Business - Do you think the environment should be protected even if its harmful to business?
Yes & no, but mostly no. If it's something that's actually endangered, then yeah sure. If it's just 'not green' then no."


Those are republican answers. Do you agree with them? Or do you agree with the liberal side?
Gay marriage, Pro choice, Environment, Taxes to "help", Only public education funding, No guns, etc.


i need a shower,before i cash my welfare check smoke my weed and bang my bi racial bisexual muslim gf



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yes we could just be the dream of a gigantic robot doing the backstroke through primordial custard,but if we all lived like that the worlds supply of cannabis would dry up within weeks



rlc
Andromeda
posts: 2693
average posts: 2.7 per day
Re: Re: im thinking of becoming a republican and joining the NRA just
November 2, 2009, 10:12AM

On October 29, 2009, 1:53PM, Sgath said:

The Republican party is certainly not lassez faire anymore, at least not since Bush. The government increased in size and scope to a level unprecedented in U.S. history with corporate welfare and disregard for budget deficits.

And I am not talking about the economic size of government. I'm talking about the governments ability to tell you what you can and can not do in terms of personal freedoms, not economic freedoms, though as I have discussed the Republican party no longer stands for the same economic freedoms Reagan did, partially of is own doing in spurring the culture of deregulation.

I'm talking about their social politicla stance. Which part supports your right to do what you want more? The answer is liberals, who are socially more libertarian and less authoritarian.But social conservatives want to be able to tell you what you can and can not do because they want to enforce morals on society. This is being against social freedoms.


bush isn't exactly the best example of a conservative, dude was all over the place. and i don't know where you get your information, but liberals tend to pass laws telling people how to think and act a lot more often than conservatives do.

i'm not just arguing because you're a liberal, i'd definitely debate a conservative if there were more here because they're not perfect, either. and libertarians, well, laroche is probably about the biggest idiot there is.

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insert nerdy signature here

[This post was last updated on November 2, 2009, 10:14AM by rlc.]



Sgath
Forums Moderator
posts: 5061
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Re: im thinking of becoming a republican and joining the NRA just to r
November 2, 2009, 10:36AM

Well I was talking about the Republican party, which is not really conservative either. In fact as I explained it's become a sort of neo form of ideology that I describe as a corporate socialist oligarchy.

It is true that 'liberals', tend to pass more nanny laws but this is not liberalism in the idea of social libertarianism. The desire to regulate human actions for the greater good is an authoritarian notion common to both American political parties either statistically or morally. Why? Because they're both authoritarian in their own ways. You are using the terms liberal and conservative incorrectly. I get my information from books .

Also, I'm not ideological disposed towards being a 'liberal' as you use the term. Though if I explained to you what classical liberal meant you'd probably admit you were one, what with the American ideals you seem to have in regards to personal freedoms.

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rlc
Andromeda
posts: 2693
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Re: im thinking of becoming a republican and joining the NRA just to r
November 2, 2009, 10:51AM

no, i'm using the words correctly and i know what classical liberalism means. i've taken political science classes, too. the thing is that you're talking theoretical and i'm talking practical.

and i'm also an independent, so of course i'd have ideas from both sides.

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Sgath
Forums Moderator
posts: 5061
average posts: 8.9 per day
Re: im thinking of becoming a republican and joining the NRA just to r
November 2, 2009, 11:09AM

Well why use them incorrectly just to be practical? Liberals are for more social freedoms. Social conservatives are for less and bigger government interference in human affairs. Economic conservatives are for more economic freedoms traditionally. But liberals want more regulation to provide more economic freedom to the lower and middle classes. It's all rather relative. You can't make a sweeping statement about who wants a bigger government. In doing so you were only echoing common talking points that mean almost nothing, and so not really displaying this 'theoretical' understanding of politics that you claim to have.

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DS Bureaucracy™: All the love a troll needs.



rlc
Andromeda
posts: 2693
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Re: im thinking of becoming a republican and joining the NRA just to r
November 2, 2009, 11:51AM

because theoretical arguments look better on paper and practical arguments look better in the real world.

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insert nerdy signature here



Sgath
Forums Moderator
posts: 5061
average posts: 8.9 per day
Re: im thinking of becoming a republican and joining the NRA just to r
November 2, 2009, 3:37PM

But I wasn't be theoretical. I was using the terms in an academic sense to conceptualize your statements more realistically.

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DS Bureaucracy™: Save the environment with frequent Andromeda™ purchases!



Sgath
Forums Moderator
posts: 5061
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Re: im thinking of becoming a republican and joining the NRA just to r
November 7, 2009, 1:56PM

Yeah thats what I was pointing out. There's a difference between neo-liberalism and republican style corporate welfare which has become known as neo-conservatism. A huge difference. One supports economic freedom(neo-liberal capitalists) while the other supports the large scale subsidy of corporate interests and monopolies. Republicans are not even anymore in support of economic freedom really as they've forsaken their neo-liberal creed. And there's also a difference between a social liberal and an economic one.

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hezekiah
Forums Operator
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Re: im thinking of becoming a republican and joining the NRA just to r
November 7, 2009, 4:56PM

Social authoritarianism is also a rather handy way of maintaining the model of Society born during the Industrial revolution, one that squeezes the most productivity out of the workers.

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nodgene
Starling
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Re: im thinking of becoming a republican and joining the NRA just to r
November 8, 2009, 10:01AM

Social authoritarianism is also a rather handy way of maintaining the model of Society born during the Industrial revolution, one that squeezes the most productivity out of the workers.

Because anti-gay and anti-abortion stances increase productivity by 20%. As opposed to a system where productivity is substantially lowered, example?



hezekiah
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Re: im thinking of becoming a republican and joining the NRA just to r
November 8, 2009, 1:20PM

No. How ever, Nuclear families living together, with 2 children, Christian values, church going, working Husband, Housewife, are the most productive, and these are relativly protected by many Conservative values.

Go do any Historical study of Modernity, and you'll see the emergence of this pattern around the the Industrial revolution.

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nodgene
Starling
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Re: im thinking of becoming a republican and joining the NRA just to r
November 8, 2009, 4:17PM

Because women spent a lot of time working in the house and raising children prior to the industrial revolution? Women's role was in the house at the time of the Romans. That isn't something that is new or particularly planned, for some maniacal tycoon plotting over how to get every last drop of sweat from his workers...



hezekiah
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Re: im thinking of becoming a republican and joining the NRA just to r
November 8, 2009, 5:10PM

I'm not saying it's some maniacal tycoon! It's the natural evolution of society to cope with modernity.

And actually, there were many cases of women being heads of house holds all across Europe, with several men as fathers. We did several case studies in History last year about families in London living prior to the industrial revolution, they were really not nuclear families.

I can find some long academic article I used as research last year about it?

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[This post was last updated on November 8, 2009, 10:11PM by hezekiah.]



nodgene
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Re: im thinking of becoming a republican and joining the NRA just to r
November 9, 2009, 4:37PM

I don't see why not, the exchange of knowledge is important. But I fail to see how what you describe as a nuclear Christian family would be more productive than other examples. People work when they need to.



hezekiah
Forums Operator
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Re: im thinking of becoming a republican and joining the NRA just to r
November 9, 2009, 4:56PM

You're not supposed to say yes, now I have to trawl through .pdf files on my computer!

It's kind of obvious though. Having extended family around makes the family more independant, they're able to look after each other. The Grandparents drain the ability of their sons/daughters to work for wage, as they have to be cared for. Additionally, one large family may only have 1 or 2 workers out of many possible workers, with the children working towards joining their fathers work. Grandparents in this system are also forced to work for longer.

A nuclear familiy promotes the male children to leave, and "Go it alone" - creating their own family which they have to provide for, instead of staying within the extended family network. In say Iran, where there are huge family groups, the productivity of said family is considerably lower than their Western equilavents. The children work towards their fathers trade, and the daughters satelite the family as de facto house wives, along with the wife, or several wives. It's not hugely progressive, there's no drive to achieve for yourself, unlike a nuclear family.

Let me find some papers on it.



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